Quote: “Yates told me, increasingly come to him and ‘want their kids doing what the Olympians are doing right now, not what the Olympians were doing when there were twelve or thirteen.”’ (Epstein 65)
Comment: This quote was very interesting to me because it is very true. As a kid, we don’t see the process of successful people and only see them as being at the top of their particular field. This leads to us making a lot of assumptions about how they got there and then we try to replicate whatever journey we think they may have gone through to get to that point.
Question: Would younger kids or even people our age be more likely to try to replicate the journey of successful people if the journey included a wide variety of activities, or a very narrow focus on one activity?
Quote: “The students who would go on to be most successful only started practicing much more once they identified an instrument they wanted to focus on, whether because they were better at it or just liked it more. The instrument, it appeared, was driving the practitioner, rather than the reverse.” (Epstein 66)
Comment: I find this quote very interesting and can connect with this personally. My dad played basketball and he absolutely loved it, it was the only thing he ever wanted to do. Even now, he’s not playing but he still loves the game and always wants to learn and talk about basketball. Of course, because of his love for the game, I developed a love for basketball. So, this kind of contradicts what the quote says. I’m not sure if I actually picked up basketball because I loved it or because I was always close to it and it was in my life from a very young age.
Question: Is being influenced by your environment growing up ok? How different would things look if growing up, no kid was influenced by their environment and got to choose their focus in life purely off of their own interests?
“The children were taught to read, write, and do arithmetic,as well as vocational skills. Some became pharmacists for the residents, others laundered silk or sewed ship sails that could be sold”(pg 59)
Comment: I think its interesting how talented these women became to be coming from a broken back round and not so well family, getting thrown into these hospitals full of other girls the same as them and not reality getting to decide what they wanted to do with there lives.
Question: How much more talented could they have been if they were specialized in what they do now, like the girls who got thrown into being musicians and not wanting to be, what if thats what they truly wanted to do how much better could they have been?
“Weather its the story of Tiger Woods or the yale professor known as the tiger woods mother,the message is the same:choose early,focus, narrowly, never waver.”(pg 64)
Comment: The trend is the same for all these talented people, they all specialize in what they do and once they know that’s what they wanna do they stick to that one thing for as long as they can and become the greatest they can by doing the things he’s talking about here.
Question:What if they chose to go a different path, like if tiger woods decided to be a football player would his mindset be the same and would he have excelled in that sport the same way he did in golf?
Quote: “Like Rousseau, English visitor lady Anna Miller was entranced by the music and pleaded to see the women perform with no barrier hiding them. ‘My request was granted,’ Miller wrote, ‘but when I entered I was seized with so violent a fit of laughter…my eyes were struck with the sight of a dozen or fourteen beldams ugly and old…Miller changed her mind about watching them play…” (Epstein 58).
Comment: It is amazingly sad how fast we judge people. These audience members just heard the most amazing piece by outstanding musicians and were truly excited to meet them. However, the second they saw that these women were in any way different from ‘normal’ they retreated in disgust. These people are willing to never listen to this beautiful music ever again just because the musicians who play are different. This is truly saddening that these women have to hide behind a curtain to be listened to and praised because otherwise they would be shunned. It makes me ashamed of Lady Miller and Rousseau due to their harsh judgements. They are unable to look past the differences and congratulate these women on their amazing playing.
Question: When people judge to quickly does this insinuate that they are missing out on the beauties of the world? If people continue to isolate themselves from others who are ‘different’ what would become of society?
Quote: “A number of musicians recounted Brubeck-like scenarios to Berliner, the time my teacher found out that they could not read music but had become adept enough at imitation and improvisation that ‘they had simply pretended to follow the notation.’ Berliner relayed the advice of professional musicians to a young improvisational learner as ‘not to think about playing-just play’” (Epstein 74).
Comment: The quote spoke volumes to me as my music teacher always told us to ‘just play’ and to ‘just do it’. Music is art and one is able is play just by listening. It is amazing what the mind can come up with when there is just creativity and no rules. Sometimes when practicing a specific piece, one gets caught up in the rhythms and isn’t able to play it even though they full well have the capability to do so. In this situation the musician is focusing to much on playing it right that it has lost the art and creative part of music. One has to let go and feel the music, not force a certain rhythm. This is similar to writer’s block as you lose the creativity when forced into structure and meeting a certain number of pages for a certain date. This sucks the creativity out of the writing and out of you because you are confined to produce a certain outcome rather than letting the art flow.
Question: Do rules and regulations suck the creativity out of society? Would society be better suited with less rules and more creativity or would chaos break out?
Quote: “Today, the massively multi-instrument approach seems to go against everything we know about how to get good at a skill like playing music. It certainly goes against the deliberate practice framework, which only counts highly focused attempts at exactly the skull to be performed. Multiple instruments, in that view, should be a waste of time” (Epstein 64).
Comment: This idea is actually really interesting to me because I’ve always loved music and I thought it would be really cool to learn how to play a lot of instruments. When I was younger I learned the basics of how to play the violin, the piano, the flute, and the guitar (although I can’t play any of them anymore) and even though they were all very different instruments they weren’t all that different when it came to how to play them. You learn how to read notes, you learn how to play the notes, and then you put them together. So the idea that learning how to play multiple instruments was a waste of time is very jarring to me because playing music itself is a skill that can be applied to multiple instruments.
Question: Does this idea apply to certain types of instruments? For example, if someone learned to play multiple string instruments, would that still be seen as wrong even though most are played in a similar way?
Quote: “Improv masters learn like babies: dive in and imitate and improvise first, learn the formal rules later. ‘At the beginning, your mom didn’t give you a book and say ‘This is a noun, this is a pronoun, this is a dangling participle,’’ Cecchini told me. ‘You acquired the sound first. And then you acquire the grammar later.’” (Epstein 75).
Comment: I really like this comparison that you learn the sound before the grammar because I think it applies to a lot especially in academia. You learn the processes of things and then apply those to different concepts. Like in math, you learn certain formulas to solve certain kinds of equations, but they can be applied to different things. I also found this section interesting about how people who didn’t even know how to read music were able to compose pieces.
Question: Is it better to teach broad subjects that can be applied to many different things rather than teaching specific ways to do certain things?
“Most of them would never know their mothers. They were dropped off in the scaffetta, a drawer built into the outer wall of the Pieta. Like the size tester for carry-on luggage at the airport, if a baby was small enough to fit, the Pieta would raise her.” pg 59
Comment: This quote seemed important because in Venice woman and babies were treated so poorly, and it was a common thing to put your baby in the street and never come back for it if you didn’t want it. Although that is still a thing in most places, it is not common, there are places where you can bring your child in America instead of leaving it out in the open. Most girls do not grow up with a mother nor know any blood relatives, so they are named after Pieta. Which is why it is so shocking for their culture to have woman preform music, especially woman of a large age range. In Venice they treat woman as not as important as men, and many others. I am not sure if leaving your baby in the Pieta is as common in Venice anymore, but I hope not.
Question: Why do so many mothers get rid of their baby girls?
Quote 2
“ ‘She is the first of her sex to challenge the success of our great artists.’”
pg56
Comment: In Venice, there were many women who had musical talent, but one group of girls who were so beyond talented, were named figlie del coro which means daughter of the choir. This group was praised by many, but also did not catch everyone’s attention. In Venice, activities such as horse riding and field sports were more common for entertainment, not live music. But those who did appreciate the beauty of these women’s voices were mesmerized by it. A French politician was impressed by the angelic voices, yet a British writer complained about how seeing them play instruments was nothing special. These women were amazing, did such impressive things that even men could not do.
Question: Why were the opinions on women’s bands so different from each other? What did one party see that the other did not?
Quote: Today, the massively multi-instrument approach seems to go against everything we we know about how to get good at a skill like playing music. It certainly goes against the deliberate practice framework, which only counts highly focused attempts at exactly the skill to be performed. Multiple instruments, in that view, should be a waste of time. (Epstein 64)
Comment: I think that this quote as well as this example, ties in with the ongoing theme of generalists succeeding, despite social norms favoring specialists. Nowadays, most artists pick one instrument and perfect their ability on said instrument. It’s believed that the best way to get better at playing an instrument is too cut out all other instruments, and fully devote yourself solely to one instrument. However, this is obviously disproved by the Figlie who specialized in every instrument their institution offered. Perhaps ones musical ability is improved by practice with any instrument, not just the one of their choice.
Questions: Why is it that the Figlie were able to master several instruments at a young age, when its considered standard to fixate on one instrument. What method it truly better for musicians?
Quote: According to the Suzuki association of the Americas, “children do not practice excursuses to learn to talk . . . . . Children learn to read after their ability to talk has been well established. (Epstein 76)
Comment: This quote makes sense, though the message it’s supporting differs from the one present in this chapter. As an example, children naturally learn how to speak by being present in their environment, and pick up on speech just by learning others do so. This is likely common with more than just speech, as we always tend to learn things subconsciously from our surroundings.
Questions: Why does this happen? Can all things be learned indirectly like this? How do children learn to speak just by hearing others do so?
Quote:
“‘but when I entered I was seized with so violent a fit of laughter, that I’m surprised they had not driven me out again… my eyes were struck with the sight of a dozen or fourteen ugly and old… these with several young girls.’” (p. 58)
Comment:
This quote really caught my attention because of how relatable it is to me. This quote talks about beautiful music being played by not so beautiful women, but we only know this because people begged to see behind the curtain that they usually play behind. As soon as they saw what the women really looked like, minds were changed, and it shouldn’t be like that. In English class, I’ve just finished writing a paper about negative judgment in the world from an experience of my own. This quote from the text is a prime example of how negative judgment changes one’s mind when it really shouldn’t be. I think this quote particularly is interesting because they are suggesting that you don’t have to be pretty to be able to play music, but more importantly, because they are all ugly it gives us an idea of their background of Ospedale della Pietà, hospital of pity, and that they can still make it out of there and be successful.
Question:
Why do you think it mattered how the musicians looked if they performed beautifully regardless?
Quote:
“The students who would go on to be the most successful only started practicing much more once they identified an instrument they wanted to focus on, whether because they were better at it or just liked it more. The instrument, it appeared, was driving the practitioner, rather than the reverse.” (p. 66)
Comment:
This quote really resonated with me because it’s kind of been something I’ve been thinking about the whole time while reading this book. Why do parents feel the need to choose their children’s life path for them? Regarding this topic I consider myself very lucky. Growing up I was never forced to play sports, but rather wanted to, and wanted to try almost all of them. It’s funny that the sport I love and currently play in college was the last sport I started playing, so that just goes to show how important the sampling period really is. The last sentence in this quote is especially very powerful to me. In my case, I’ve also noted that the beautiful game of hockey is what drives me to succeed, it’s not something that’s forced or else that wouldn’t be the case. In Tiger’s life, he happened to love the sport that was pushed on him, but in the case of the many musicians mentioned in this chapter, it was the opposite. The sampling period is very important for people to figure out what they really love, and it’s unfortunate that a lot of people don’t get to experience that.
Question:
Why do parents feel the need to choose their children’s life path for them? To live out the life that they couldn’t? To me, this seems unfair.
Quote “‘…I’m not saying one way is the best, but now I get a lot of students form schools that are teaching jazz, and they all sound the same. They don’t seem to find their own voice. I think when you’re self-taught you experiment more, trying to find the same sound in different places, you learn how to solve problems.’(77)”
Comment I think this quote is very interesting, the idea that when you teach yourself something, you actually learn more is crazy. I have self taught myself math and painting, and from my experience, I know more in both of those subjects than a person who just took it in school. Im not saying I’m a super talented person but we all have our talents that are better than other people. I also think that self-teaching yourself does help you with other problem solving situations in the future. I think also a lot of it relates back to the schooling system and how we teach kids.
Question What self-taught talent or skill do you think has helped you the most?
Quote “Just like Tiger Woods’s television appearance when he was two, it would torment a frenzy of parents and media seeking to excavate the mysterious secret to success. Parents actually did flock in the eighteenth century. Noblemen vied (and paid) to get their daughters a chance to play with those ‘able indigents,’ as one historian put it(64)”.
Comment It crazy to think that it is just history repeating its self over and over again. It’s crazy what some parents would put their child through just to have a famous kid. Making choses for your kid to start doing something at the age of 2 and not knowing if its going to work or hurt the child in the process is mind-blowing. I think that it’s crazy the Tiger started art such a young age, like many of the stories in this chapter, Tiger could have quit when he was in his teens. He could have made the choice to not do golf professional, there are so many things that could have changed everything he is doing now, like what happened to so many people in the chapter.
Question I wonder at what lengths would a parent go to just have a famous kid or do most of them not think that their kid will be famous one day?
Quote “Lulu made rapid progress on the violin, but pretty soon told her mother ominously ‘You picked it, not me.’ At thirteen, she quit most of her violin activities. Chua, candid and introspective, wondered in the coda of her book if Lulu would still be playing if she had been allowed to choose her own instrument” (66).
Comment: I liked this chapter because it was all about music and what that tells you about someone’s mind. I relate to the middle of this chapter because it revolved around piano and violin, and the ways to go about learning instruments. This quote is about a mother who picked her daughter’s instrument instead of letting her pick it for herself through trial and experimentation. The author goes on to explain how kids who went through a sampling period and tried out more than one instrument before focusing in on one were actually more successful and likely to continue playing than those who specialized at a younger age. The author says how psychologists found that “nearly all the more accomplished students had played at least three instruments” (67) at once, as opposed to a single instrument. Personally I went through a similar sampling period as a child. I wanted to play the violin but my family already owned a piano, so my mom told me I had to play the piano first and then she would buy me a violin if I still wanted to. I evidently liked piano, but I also tried out the recorder, the guitar, the ukulele, the saxophone, and I ended up sticking with piano through it all.
Question: Does playing a bunch of instruments at once mean that people become less skilled at multiple things or does it cause them to improve at all of them?
———–
Quote: “‘some of the greatest musicians were self-taught or never learned to read music. I’m not saying one way is the best… I think when you’re self-taught you experiment more, trying to find the same sound in different places, you learn how to solve problems” (77).
Comment: This quote is about the different ways musicians learn music and how that affects their skill level. The musician Cecchini is talking about the difference between learning instruments through structured lessons taught by an experienced teacher, as opposed to teaching it to yourself through trial and error. He says that being self taught can be better because it allows people to experiment more, that you learn through messing up and learning from mistakes instead of having everything in front of you at all times. There is a benefit to working through things on your own instead of being spoon fed the right answers. Although this process takes longer and it can be much more frustrating, it is much more rewarding. Personally, I always went to piano lessons, but that doesn’t mean my teacher taught me everything. I used what she taught me and used that base knowledge to improve my skills for myself at home.
Question: Should I have continued playing multiple instruments or was specialization when I got older a good idea?
Quote 1: ‘”She is the first of her sex to challenge the success of our great artists.’ Even listeners not obviously disposed to support the arts were moves (pg. 56).
Comment: I think this is really interesting. It is really cool to me because back then, women were seen lesser than they are now. Men were the ones who were “more important” and more musical. And a lot of women musicians didn’t challenge men back then.
Question: When did this take place in Italy? What year? How long ago was this?
Quote 2: “Everyone was compensated for their work, and the Pieta had its own interest-paying bank meant to help wards learn to manage their own money. Boys learned a trade or joined the navy and left as teenagers. For girls, marriage was the primary route to emancipation. Dowries were kept ready, but many wards stayed forever” (pg 59-60).
Comment: I just think this is very interesting because girls were expected to get marries very quickly back then. And men were expected to join the military and have a hard job.
Question: why were women expected to get married so soon?
Quote- “Learners become better at applying their knowledge to a situation they have never seen before, Which is the essence of creativity.”
Comment- This quote interested me because it reminded me of Carol Dweck and her growth mindset idea. The people who face the challenge head on and use all of their skills are classified as having a growth mindset. This is similar to what Epstein is saying about the essence of creativity. He is basically saying that the growth mindset is very much creativity oriented. He sort of narrowed down the growth mindset into something more specific. I prefer Dweck’s description because it isn’t narrowed down like Epstein did. By specifying, he can exclude different important parts of the growth mindset.
Question- How do Dweck and Epstein’s statements compliment each other? How do they contradict?
Quote-”The sampling period is not incidental to the development of great performers, something to be excised in the interest of a head start- it is integral.”
Comment- I would like to discuss more about this quote. It would be interesting to go into more detail about what this quote is actually saying. I was a bit confused when I first read it so discussing it in class would be helpful. I’m also interested in learning more about the sampling period. I kind of feel like right now, I am in the sampling period, so it would be helpful to me to see what other things it might entail. What specifically can I do to improve myself in this stage and eventually evolve out of it.
Question- Are we in the sampling period right now? How can we make the most of it?
Journal 9
“For those who stayed a lifetime in the institution, their multi-instrument background had practical importance. Pelegrina Della Pietà, who arrived at the scafetta swaddled in rags, started on the bass, moved to violin, and then to the oboe, all while working as a nurse. Vivaldi wrote oboe parts specifically for Pelegrina, but in her sixties her teeth fell out, abruptly ending her oboe career. So, she switched back to the violin, and continued performing into her seventies.” (62)
Comment: In this quote the writer talks about how Pelegrina Della Pieta has played multiple instruments and when she wasn’t able to play the oboe, she still continued her musician career. While she wasn’t able to continue playing the oboe, she didn’t let that stop her. This takes a lot of courage and shows when it is something you truly enjoy you will find ways to make it happen. This quote also stood out to me since it shows how she not only did not stop playing an instrument, but she also didn’t let that come between her performing.
Question: If it wasn’t for the multi-instrument background, would she have considered trying another instrument once she was still unable to play or would she have just given up?
“A study of music students aged eight to eighteen and ranging in skill from rank novices to students in a highly selective music school found that when they began training there was no difference in the amount of practice undertaken between any of the groups of players, from the least to the most accomplished. The students who would go on to be the most successful only started practicing much more once they identified an instrument they wanted to focus on, whether because they were better at it or just liked it more. The instrument, it appeared, was driving the practitioner, rather than the reverse.” (66)
Comment: This quote stood out to me for multiple reasons. This quote explains how when the students found an instrument they really liked, that’s when they got better at playing. Rather than forcing the students to play an instrument they don’t enjoy, the students are actually enjoying what they’re playing. When the students finally have an interest in what they’re doing they are more motivated to practice and get better at what they’re doing.
Question: If these students were forced to play instruments they weren’t actually interested in, would they have the motivation to play the music and practice as much as they do?
Journal 9 (pp 55-77)
Quote: “In a separate study of twelve hundred young musicians, those who quit reported a mismatch [they] wanted to learn to play and the instrument they actually played. Amy Chua described her daughter Lulu as a natural musician. Chua’s singer friend called Lulu extraordinary with a gift no one can teach. Lulu made rapid progress on the violin but pretty soon told her mother ominously, you picked it not me (Epstien 66).”
Comment (150-200 words): This quote stuck out to me because I feel many parents tend to make decisions for their children based on what they want and to live vicariously through their children. It shows here that many children tend to take harshly to these decisions and usually it is not in their best interest in the future. But at what age can children advocate for themselves and make decsions for themselves, because again as parents choose for their children, aome children do things based on friend groups or what they think is cool or popular at the time, so it leads me to think who is in the right here. But I belive if a child truly shows interest in something to let them persure and explore their true passions, to not make these decisions for them because this wil esentialy affect their life and futer, I can relate here because my mom put me in dance because she wanted to hang out with my friends mom who was also in dance, and ultimatly it didnt end up well for a lot of reasons. I ended up much happier in cheerleading but was only able to persue it my senior year of highschool.
Question: Why do parents tend to make these decisions for children?
Quote: I get a lot of students from schools that are teaching jazz, and they all sound the same.They don’t seem to find their own voice.I think when you’re self-taught you experiment more, trying to find the same sound in different places, you learn how to problem solve (Epstein 77)”.
Comment (150-200 words): Personaly I belive only certain types of people can self teach themselves, it truley is a talent and takes alot of work. I think Lessons and teachers are a good weay to socalize, make friends and make sure you learn certain skills correctly.I don thtink that either way is 100 percent right or wrong, but you gain benifits from both skills, there are plenty of professionals out there who wenr to lessons and are not self taught and then there are those who were self taught and are equal in talent and are both equally impressive. Also I believe you can find your own style even in clases or teacher settings, you find what you like and can put a spin on it.
Question: It takes a lot to teach youswelf a certain skill, dose it esentaily give you an advantage because what if a school is loopking for someone with a taught skill set?
13 thoughts on “JOURNAL #9”
Quote: “Yates told me, increasingly come to him and ‘want their kids doing what the Olympians are doing right now, not what the Olympians were doing when there were twelve or thirteen.”’ (Epstein 65)
Comment: This quote was very interesting to me because it is very true. As a kid, we don’t see the process of successful people and only see them as being at the top of their particular field. This leads to us making a lot of assumptions about how they got there and then we try to replicate whatever journey we think they may have gone through to get to that point.
Question: Would younger kids or even people our age be more likely to try to replicate the journey of successful people if the journey included a wide variety of activities, or a very narrow focus on one activity?
Quote: “The students who would go on to be most successful only started practicing much more once they identified an instrument they wanted to focus on, whether because they were better at it or just liked it more. The instrument, it appeared, was driving the practitioner, rather than the reverse.” (Epstein 66)
Comment: I find this quote very interesting and can connect with this personally. My dad played basketball and he absolutely loved it, it was the only thing he ever wanted to do. Even now, he’s not playing but he still loves the game and always wants to learn and talk about basketball. Of course, because of his love for the game, I developed a love for basketball. So, this kind of contradicts what the quote says. I’m not sure if I actually picked up basketball because I loved it or because I was always close to it and it was in my life from a very young age.
Question: Is being influenced by your environment growing up ok? How different would things look if growing up, no kid was influenced by their environment and got to choose their focus in life purely off of their own interests?
“The children were taught to read, write, and do arithmetic,as well as vocational skills. Some became pharmacists for the residents, others laundered silk or sewed ship sails that could be sold”(pg 59)
Comment: I think its interesting how talented these women became to be coming from a broken back round and not so well family, getting thrown into these hospitals full of other girls the same as them and not reality getting to decide what they wanted to do with there lives.
Question: How much more talented could they have been if they were specialized in what they do now, like the girls who got thrown into being musicians and not wanting to be, what if thats what they truly wanted to do how much better could they have been?
“Weather its the story of Tiger Woods or the yale professor known as the tiger woods mother,the message is the same:choose early,focus, narrowly, never waver.”(pg 64)
Comment: The trend is the same for all these talented people, they all specialize in what they do and once they know that’s what they wanna do they stick to that one thing for as long as they can and become the greatest they can by doing the things he’s talking about here.
Question:What if they chose to go a different path, like if tiger woods decided to be a football player would his mindset be the same and would he have excelled in that sport the same way he did in golf?
Quote: “Like Rousseau, English visitor lady Anna Miller was entranced by the music and pleaded to see the women perform with no barrier hiding them. ‘My request was granted,’ Miller wrote, ‘but when I entered I was seized with so violent a fit of laughter…my eyes were struck with the sight of a dozen or fourteen beldams ugly and old…Miller changed her mind about watching them play…” (Epstein 58).
Comment: It is amazingly sad how fast we judge people. These audience members just heard the most amazing piece by outstanding musicians and were truly excited to meet them. However, the second they saw that these women were in any way different from ‘normal’ they retreated in disgust. These people are willing to never listen to this beautiful music ever again just because the musicians who play are different. This is truly saddening that these women have to hide behind a curtain to be listened to and praised because otherwise they would be shunned. It makes me ashamed of Lady Miller and Rousseau due to their harsh judgements. They are unable to look past the differences and congratulate these women on their amazing playing.
Question: When people judge to quickly does this insinuate that they are missing out on the beauties of the world? If people continue to isolate themselves from others who are ‘different’ what would become of society?
Quote: “A number of musicians recounted Brubeck-like scenarios to Berliner, the time my teacher found out that they could not read music but had become adept enough at imitation and improvisation that ‘they had simply pretended to follow the notation.’ Berliner relayed the advice of professional musicians to a young improvisational learner as ‘not to think about playing-just play’” (Epstein 74).
Comment: The quote spoke volumes to me as my music teacher always told us to ‘just play’ and to ‘just do it’. Music is art and one is able is play just by listening. It is amazing what the mind can come up with when there is just creativity and no rules. Sometimes when practicing a specific piece, one gets caught up in the rhythms and isn’t able to play it even though they full well have the capability to do so. In this situation the musician is focusing to much on playing it right that it has lost the art and creative part of music. One has to let go and feel the music, not force a certain rhythm. This is similar to writer’s block as you lose the creativity when forced into structure and meeting a certain number of pages for a certain date. This sucks the creativity out of the writing and out of you because you are confined to produce a certain outcome rather than letting the art flow.
Question: Do rules and regulations suck the creativity out of society? Would society be better suited with less rules and more creativity or would chaos break out?
Quote: “Today, the massively multi-instrument approach seems to go against everything we know about how to get good at a skill like playing music. It certainly goes against the deliberate practice framework, which only counts highly focused attempts at exactly the skull to be performed. Multiple instruments, in that view, should be a waste of time” (Epstein 64).
Comment: This idea is actually really interesting to me because I’ve always loved music and I thought it would be really cool to learn how to play a lot of instruments. When I was younger I learned the basics of how to play the violin, the piano, the flute, and the guitar (although I can’t play any of them anymore) and even though they were all very different instruments they weren’t all that different when it came to how to play them. You learn how to read notes, you learn how to play the notes, and then you put them together. So the idea that learning how to play multiple instruments was a waste of time is very jarring to me because playing music itself is a skill that can be applied to multiple instruments.
Question: Does this idea apply to certain types of instruments? For example, if someone learned to play multiple string instruments, would that still be seen as wrong even though most are played in a similar way?
Quote: “Improv masters learn like babies: dive in and imitate and improvise first, learn the formal rules later. ‘At the beginning, your mom didn’t give you a book and say ‘This is a noun, this is a pronoun, this is a dangling participle,’’ Cecchini told me. ‘You acquired the sound first. And then you acquire the grammar later.’” (Epstein 75).
Comment: I really like this comparison that you learn the sound before the grammar because I think it applies to a lot especially in academia. You learn the processes of things and then apply those to different concepts. Like in math, you learn certain formulas to solve certain kinds of equations, but they can be applied to different things. I also found this section interesting about how people who didn’t even know how to read music were able to compose pieces.
Question: Is it better to teach broad subjects that can be applied to many different things rather than teaching specific ways to do certain things?
Quote 1
“Most of them would never know their mothers. They were dropped off in the scaffetta, a drawer built into the outer wall of the Pieta. Like the size tester for carry-on luggage at the airport, if a baby was small enough to fit, the Pieta would raise her.” pg 59
Comment: This quote seemed important because in Venice woman and babies were treated so poorly, and it was a common thing to put your baby in the street and never come back for it if you didn’t want it. Although that is still a thing in most places, it is not common, there are places where you can bring your child in America instead of leaving it out in the open. Most girls do not grow up with a mother nor know any blood relatives, so they are named after Pieta. Which is why it is so shocking for their culture to have woman preform music, especially woman of a large age range. In Venice they treat woman as not as important as men, and many others. I am not sure if leaving your baby in the Pieta is as common in Venice anymore, but I hope not.
Question: Why do so many mothers get rid of their baby girls?
Quote 2
“ ‘She is the first of her sex to challenge the success of our great artists.’”
pg56
Comment: In Venice, there were many women who had musical talent, but one group of girls who were so beyond talented, were named figlie del coro which means daughter of the choir. This group was praised by many, but also did not catch everyone’s attention. In Venice, activities such as horse riding and field sports were more common for entertainment, not live music. But those who did appreciate the beauty of these women’s voices were mesmerized by it. A French politician was impressed by the angelic voices, yet a British writer complained about how seeing them play instruments was nothing special. These women were amazing, did such impressive things that even men could not do.
Question: Why were the opinions on women’s bands so different from each other? What did one party see that the other did not?
Quote: Today, the massively multi-instrument approach seems to go against everything we we know about how to get good at a skill like playing music. It certainly goes against the deliberate practice framework, which only counts highly focused attempts at exactly the skill to be performed. Multiple instruments, in that view, should be a waste of time. (Epstein 64)
Comment: I think that this quote as well as this example, ties in with the ongoing theme of generalists succeeding, despite social norms favoring specialists. Nowadays, most artists pick one instrument and perfect their ability on said instrument. It’s believed that the best way to get better at playing an instrument is too cut out all other instruments, and fully devote yourself solely to one instrument. However, this is obviously disproved by the Figlie who specialized in every instrument their institution offered. Perhaps ones musical ability is improved by practice with any instrument, not just the one of their choice.
Questions: Why is it that the Figlie were able to master several instruments at a young age, when its considered standard to fixate on one instrument. What method it truly better for musicians?
Quote: According to the Suzuki association of the Americas, “children do not practice excursuses to learn to talk . . . . . Children learn to read after their ability to talk has been well established. (Epstein 76)
Comment: This quote makes sense, though the message it’s supporting differs from the one present in this chapter. As an example, children naturally learn how to speak by being present in their environment, and pick up on speech just by learning others do so. This is likely common with more than just speech, as we always tend to learn things subconsciously from our surroundings.
Questions: Why does this happen? Can all things be learned indirectly like this? How do children learn to speak just by hearing others do so?
Quote:
“‘but when I entered I was seized with so violent a fit of laughter, that I’m surprised they had not driven me out again… my eyes were struck with the sight of a dozen or fourteen ugly and old… these with several young girls.’” (p. 58)
Comment:
This quote really caught my attention because of how relatable it is to me. This quote talks about beautiful music being played by not so beautiful women, but we only know this because people begged to see behind the curtain that they usually play behind. As soon as they saw what the women really looked like, minds were changed, and it shouldn’t be like that. In English class, I’ve just finished writing a paper about negative judgment in the world from an experience of my own. This quote from the text is a prime example of how negative judgment changes one’s mind when it really shouldn’t be. I think this quote particularly is interesting because they are suggesting that you don’t have to be pretty to be able to play music, but more importantly, because they are all ugly it gives us an idea of their background of Ospedale della Pietà, hospital of pity, and that they can still make it out of there and be successful.
Question:
Why do you think it mattered how the musicians looked if they performed beautifully regardless?
Quote:
“The students who would go on to be the most successful only started practicing much more once they identified an instrument they wanted to focus on, whether because they were better at it or just liked it more. The instrument, it appeared, was driving the practitioner, rather than the reverse.” (p. 66)
Comment:
This quote really resonated with me because it’s kind of been something I’ve been thinking about the whole time while reading this book. Why do parents feel the need to choose their children’s life path for them? Regarding this topic I consider myself very lucky. Growing up I was never forced to play sports, but rather wanted to, and wanted to try almost all of them. It’s funny that the sport I love and currently play in college was the last sport I started playing, so that just goes to show how important the sampling period really is. The last sentence in this quote is especially very powerful to me. In my case, I’ve also noted that the beautiful game of hockey is what drives me to succeed, it’s not something that’s forced or else that wouldn’t be the case. In Tiger’s life, he happened to love the sport that was pushed on him, but in the case of the many musicians mentioned in this chapter, it was the opposite. The sampling period is very important for people to figure out what they really love, and it’s unfortunate that a lot of people don’t get to experience that.
Question:
Why do parents feel the need to choose their children’s life path for them? To live out the life that they couldn’t? To me, this seems unfair.
Quote “‘…I’m not saying one way is the best, but now I get a lot of students form schools that are teaching jazz, and they all sound the same. They don’t seem to find their own voice. I think when you’re self-taught you experiment more, trying to find the same sound in different places, you learn how to solve problems.’(77)”
Comment I think this quote is very interesting, the idea that when you teach yourself something, you actually learn more is crazy. I have self taught myself math and painting, and from my experience, I know more in both of those subjects than a person who just took it in school. Im not saying I’m a super talented person but we all have our talents that are better than other people. I also think that self-teaching yourself does help you with other problem solving situations in the future. I think also a lot of it relates back to the schooling system and how we teach kids.
Question What self-taught talent or skill do you think has helped you the most?
Quote “Just like Tiger Woods’s television appearance when he was two, it would torment a frenzy of parents and media seeking to excavate the mysterious secret to success. Parents actually did flock in the eighteenth century. Noblemen vied (and paid) to get their daughters a chance to play with those ‘able indigents,’ as one historian put it(64)”.
Comment It crazy to think that it is just history repeating its self over and over again. It’s crazy what some parents would put their child through just to have a famous kid. Making choses for your kid to start doing something at the age of 2 and not knowing if its going to work or hurt the child in the process is mind-blowing. I think that it’s crazy the Tiger started art such a young age, like many of the stories in this chapter, Tiger could have quit when he was in his teens. He could have made the choice to not do golf professional, there are so many things that could have changed everything he is doing now, like what happened to so many people in the chapter.
Question I wonder at what lengths would a parent go to just have a famous kid or do most of them not think that their kid will be famous one day?
Quote “Lulu made rapid progress on the violin, but pretty soon told her mother ominously ‘You picked it, not me.’ At thirteen, she quit most of her violin activities. Chua, candid and introspective, wondered in the coda of her book if Lulu would still be playing if she had been allowed to choose her own instrument” (66).
Comment: I liked this chapter because it was all about music and what that tells you about someone’s mind. I relate to the middle of this chapter because it revolved around piano and violin, and the ways to go about learning instruments. This quote is about a mother who picked her daughter’s instrument instead of letting her pick it for herself through trial and experimentation. The author goes on to explain how kids who went through a sampling period and tried out more than one instrument before focusing in on one were actually more successful and likely to continue playing than those who specialized at a younger age. The author says how psychologists found that “nearly all the more accomplished students had played at least three instruments” (67) at once, as opposed to a single instrument. Personally I went through a similar sampling period as a child. I wanted to play the violin but my family already owned a piano, so my mom told me I had to play the piano first and then she would buy me a violin if I still wanted to. I evidently liked piano, but I also tried out the recorder, the guitar, the ukulele, the saxophone, and I ended up sticking with piano through it all.
Question: Does playing a bunch of instruments at once mean that people become less skilled at multiple things or does it cause them to improve at all of them?
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Quote: “‘some of the greatest musicians were self-taught or never learned to read music. I’m not saying one way is the best… I think when you’re self-taught you experiment more, trying to find the same sound in different places, you learn how to solve problems” (77).
Comment: This quote is about the different ways musicians learn music and how that affects their skill level. The musician Cecchini is talking about the difference between learning instruments through structured lessons taught by an experienced teacher, as opposed to teaching it to yourself through trial and error. He says that being self taught can be better because it allows people to experiment more, that you learn through messing up and learning from mistakes instead of having everything in front of you at all times. There is a benefit to working through things on your own instead of being spoon fed the right answers. Although this process takes longer and it can be much more frustrating, it is much more rewarding. Personally, I always went to piano lessons, but that doesn’t mean my teacher taught me everything. I used what she taught me and used that base knowledge to improve my skills for myself at home.
Question: Should I have continued playing multiple instruments or was specialization when I got older a good idea?
Quote 1: ‘”She is the first of her sex to challenge the success of our great artists.’ Even listeners not obviously disposed to support the arts were moves (pg. 56).
Comment: I think this is really interesting. It is really cool to me because back then, women were seen lesser than they are now. Men were the ones who were “more important” and more musical. And a lot of women musicians didn’t challenge men back then.
Question: When did this take place in Italy? What year? How long ago was this?
Quote 2: “Everyone was compensated for their work, and the Pieta had its own interest-paying bank meant to help wards learn to manage their own money. Boys learned a trade or joined the navy and left as teenagers. For girls, marriage was the primary route to emancipation. Dowries were kept ready, but many wards stayed forever” (pg 59-60).
Comment: I just think this is very interesting because girls were expected to get marries very quickly back then. And men were expected to join the military and have a hard job.
Question: why were women expected to get married so soon?
Quote- “Learners become better at applying their knowledge to a situation they have never seen before, Which is the essence of creativity.”
Comment- This quote interested me because it reminded me of Carol Dweck and her growth mindset idea. The people who face the challenge head on and use all of their skills are classified as having a growth mindset. This is similar to what Epstein is saying about the essence of creativity. He is basically saying that the growth mindset is very much creativity oriented. He sort of narrowed down the growth mindset into something more specific. I prefer Dweck’s description because it isn’t narrowed down like Epstein did. By specifying, he can exclude different important parts of the growth mindset.
Question- How do Dweck and Epstein’s statements compliment each other? How do they contradict?
Quote-”The sampling period is not incidental to the development of great performers, something to be excised in the interest of a head start- it is integral.”
Comment- I would like to discuss more about this quote. It would be interesting to go into more detail about what this quote is actually saying. I was a bit confused when I first read it so discussing it in class would be helpful. I’m also interested in learning more about the sampling period. I kind of feel like right now, I am in the sampling period, so it would be helpful to me to see what other things it might entail. What specifically can I do to improve myself in this stage and eventually evolve out of it.
Question- Are we in the sampling period right now? How can we make the most of it?
Journal 9
“For those who stayed a lifetime in the institution, their multi-instrument background had practical importance. Pelegrina Della Pietà, who arrived at the scafetta swaddled in rags, started on the bass, moved to violin, and then to the oboe, all while working as a nurse. Vivaldi wrote oboe parts specifically for Pelegrina, but in her sixties her teeth fell out, abruptly ending her oboe career. So, she switched back to the violin, and continued performing into her seventies.” (62)
Comment: In this quote the writer talks about how Pelegrina Della Pieta has played multiple instruments and when she wasn’t able to play the oboe, she still continued her musician career. While she wasn’t able to continue playing the oboe, she didn’t let that stop her. This takes a lot of courage and shows when it is something you truly enjoy you will find ways to make it happen. This quote also stood out to me since it shows how she not only did not stop playing an instrument, but she also didn’t let that come between her performing.
Question: If it wasn’t for the multi-instrument background, would she have considered trying another instrument once she was still unable to play or would she have just given up?
“A study of music students aged eight to eighteen and ranging in skill from rank novices to students in a highly selective music school found that when they began training there was no difference in the amount of practice undertaken between any of the groups of players, from the least to the most accomplished. The students who would go on to be the most successful only started practicing much more once they identified an instrument they wanted to focus on, whether because they were better at it or just liked it more. The instrument, it appeared, was driving the practitioner, rather than the reverse.” (66)
Comment: This quote stood out to me for multiple reasons. This quote explains how when the students found an instrument they really liked, that’s when they got better at playing. Rather than forcing the students to play an instrument they don’t enjoy, the students are actually enjoying what they’re playing. When the students finally have an interest in what they’re doing they are more motivated to practice and get better at what they’re doing.
Question: If these students were forced to play instruments they weren’t actually interested in, would they have the motivation to play the music and practice as much as they do?
Journal 9 (pp 55-77)
Quote: “In a separate study of twelve hundred young musicians, those who quit reported a mismatch [they] wanted to learn to play and the instrument they actually played. Amy Chua described her daughter Lulu as a natural musician. Chua’s singer friend called Lulu extraordinary with a gift no one can teach. Lulu made rapid progress on the violin but pretty soon told her mother ominously, you picked it not me (Epstien 66).”
Comment (150-200 words): This quote stuck out to me because I feel many parents tend to make decisions for their children based on what they want and to live vicariously through their children. It shows here that many children tend to take harshly to these decisions and usually it is not in their best interest in the future. But at what age can children advocate for themselves and make decsions for themselves, because again as parents choose for their children, aome children do things based on friend groups or what they think is cool or popular at the time, so it leads me to think who is in the right here. But I belive if a child truly shows interest in something to let them persure and explore their true passions, to not make these decisions for them because this wil esentialy affect their life and futer, I can relate here because my mom put me in dance because she wanted to hang out with my friends mom who was also in dance, and ultimatly it didnt end up well for a lot of reasons. I ended up much happier in cheerleading but was only able to persue it my senior year of highschool.
Question: Why do parents tend to make these decisions for children?
Quote: I get a lot of students from schools that are teaching jazz, and they all sound the same.They don’t seem to find their own voice.I think when you’re self-taught you experiment more, trying to find the same sound in different places, you learn how to problem solve (Epstein 77)”.
Comment (150-200 words): Personaly I belive only certain types of people can self teach themselves, it truley is a talent and takes alot of work. I think Lessons and teachers are a good weay to socalize, make friends and make sure you learn certain skills correctly.I don thtink that either way is 100 percent right or wrong, but you gain benifits from both skills, there are plenty of professionals out there who wenr to lessons and are not self taught and then there are those who were self taught and are equal in talent and are both equally impressive. Also I believe you can find your own style even in clases or teacher settings, you find what you like and can put a spin on it.
Question: It takes a lot to teach youswelf a certain skill, dose it esentaily give you an advantage because what if a school is loopking for someone with a taught skill set?